CSA 2010-Truck Driver Safety vs Trucker Job Loss
82The Purpose of CSA 2010
CSA2010 initiative (Comprehensive Safety Analysis) or SMA is to “develop more effective and efficient methods for FMCSA, together with industry and state partners, to achieve its mission of reducing commercial motor vehicle crashes, fatalities, and injuries.”
This is just basically, a new, updated “system” with attempt to increase the safety rating among truck drivers and motor carriers.Under the new system, both carrier and driver will be assessed points for their safety performances. Upon reaching the maximum points allowed, the driver or motor carrier will be in violation of the new CSA2010.
Truckers and Companies Receive a Safety Rating
In a previous write up on our AskTheTrucker blog we discussed the potential for thousands of truck driving jobs potentially being lost as a result of CSA 2010, “CSA2010 and DAC report to cause more lost jobs for American truckers.” At that time no one knew what the exact criteria would be to rate a driver's safety, nor did drivers know where the information was going to come from. Rumor was that the information used to give a driver a safety score was going to be from a three year look back from the infamous DAC report. This is the same report which has been ruining truck drivers lives and careers for years, as trucking companies have been reporting false comments and information on a drivers DAC report to other future employers. Although a driver is able to contest false information on their DAC report, the ability to have it removed is extremely difficult. Unlike false information on a credit report where the company or institution must prove the info is TRUE that they are reporting, false info on a DAC report must be proven false by the driver..You can understand why drivers were up in arms when they believed that their driving careers would depend on information reported by previous trucking company employers.
Trucking Truth- Finally the Criteria and Basis of the Three Year Look Back is Explained
It has now been established that violations by drivers and carriers will obtained through SafeStat, a data base provided and maintained by the FMCSA . This information is sent into the data base through the D.O.T roadside inspections by DOT officers. Upon its implementation, drivers will receive a score according to a three year look back of this information within the DataBase. Trucking Companies will also be investigated and given a safety rating. If both the drivers and companies total point score are at the maximum level, current drivers and companies could immediately be in violation and placed out of service and/or terminated.
This is why the FMCSA, itself, has projected that 175,000 drivers could lose their jobs as soon as CSA2010 is implemented. Furthermore, they project that 47.9% of the U. S. trucking companies could fail.
Driver Safety Rating Points System
Drivers will also face a level of severity rating system that will be assessed under the new initiative, scheduled to be implemented in July, 2010. Based on the violation, drivers will be given a severity rating between 1-10, with 10 being the highest. This rating will then be used in a mathematical formula to determine the total points against the driver, which in turn, will determine if the driver has reached the maximum number of points allowed by CSA2010. The actual limit of points a driver or carrier can reach before being in violation, is yet to be known . . . at least, I have not been able to locate it.
However, the level of severity rating system is quite disturbing. Keeping in mind that severity will be rated between levels 1-10, with 10 being the highest, here are a few examples of what severity level rating a driver will be assessed for several violations:
- Violate a state or local ordinance or regulation: Level 1
- Violate hours of service : Level 7
- Operate a CMV with inoperative headlight/tail light: Level 6
- Violate that a load is not secured : Level 10
- Operate a CMV while ill or fatigued : Level 10
- Operate a CMV with a leaky tire : Level 8
- Operate while DUI : Level 10
So, What Does this all Mean for the Driver?
So as drivers, you must understand that if you do your pre-trip inspection and everything is fine and good to go, and you drive 50 miles and catch a nail in the tire and DOT pulls you over and discovers the leaky tire . . . you will be hit with a Level 8 severity rating. Still, the total number of points allowed before being punished by CSA2010, has not yet been determined by myself . . . I have not been given the answer to this question by anyone else either.
In the case of CSA2010, time is on your side as a professional driver. The algebraic equation to be used to determine the total points against drivers varies between the different measures within the system. Basically, it is determined by taking the total time and severity level ratings/violations, divided by the number of time relevant roadside inspections. All clear now?
This means that severity levels and points can reduce over time. If you get hit with a Level 8 for a leaky tire, but do not have another violation for six months, when the calculation is performed to determine your points, the points will go down due to the length of time that has passed between the two violations. This is why I say that time really is on your side.
How Can I Get My Driver Safety Information Before the Trucking Companies Get It?
As this information for the DataBase is being put together, none has been released to the trucking companies or truck drivers. However, the information is available to drivers right now. The Freedom of Information Act (5 U.S.C. 552) establishes a presumption that records in the possession of agencies and departments of the Executive Branch of the U. S. Government are available to the public.
A driver can file a Freedom of Information request to the FMCSA to receive this information being created as a result of CSA2010. To submit your request, you must do the following:
- Make your request in writing and include your name, address and phone number where you can be reached if they (FMCSA) needs to contact you.
- Clearly indicate that you are making your request under the Freedom of Information Act.
- The request must reasonably and specifically describe the documents you are seeking.
- When requesting documents on a specific motor carrier, include the carrier’s name and principal place of business, or their DOT number.
Submit your request to:
Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
Attn: FOIA, Team MC-MMI
1200 New Jersey Avenue SE Washington, DC 20590
Contact the FOIA Public Liaison, ONLY after you have received your documents from the FOIA office, if you have any questions or concerns about the information shown. This contact information is:
FMCSA Public Liaison Duane DeBruyne 202...
Another important note, is that the information for the DataBase is currently from SafeStat. However, once CSA2010 is enforced ( summer of 2010), the DataBase will be handled by NIC Technologies out of Olathe, Kansas. NIC was awarded the contract by the Federal Department of Transportation for the National Motor Carrier Pre-Employment Screening System. You can read the News Release . . .
Once CSA 2010 goes into effect and NIC takes over the Data Base from FMCSA of Driver and Trucking Company information, drivers information reports showing your driver score will cost $10 and trucking companies will also have to pay the $10 fee. Also, companies do not have to share this information with the driver. If not, you will have to pay the ten dollar fee to receive the information that has been collected on you.
WIll Drivers Be Able to Contest False Information on Their Safety Report?
It is being reported that there is no way to challenge false information from the SafeStat Data Base which is presently with the FMCSA. This is not true. Once you request your information from the Freedom of Information Act, a drivers can then contest wrong information on their reports by using the FMCSA’s DataQs system. You must first register from the DataQs home page by selecting “register on-line” as a general public user and create a DataQs account profile. Once registered, drivers will be able to challenge his or her data by following the detailed instructions in the “Help” menu. This information is not well known, so I hope this assists drivers in the dispute process towards this new point rating system data.
However, once CSA 2010 is enforced and NIC Technologies takes over the DataBase from the FMCSA, you will not be able to challenge the false information through FMCSA’s system.
NIC reportedly will provide a means of allowing drivers to contest the information, but currently they have not established how they will provide this service.
Listen to the Recorded Show of CSA 2010 we Had on 1/21/10
On Thursday, January 21st, 2010 our talk radio show, Truth About Trucking “LIVE” aired a 90 minute open discussion on important issues facing drivers and the trucking industry. CSA2010 was clearly the leader.
The show had many on-line listeners from their phones, through the internet and a good participating audience in the provided chat room. Mike Rone of RMR Consultants and Jimmy Sills, a CSA2010 specialist, called into the show to share their knowledge of CSA2010. Furthermore, Mr. Rone stated that DAC Services will have nothing to do with the CSA2010 initiative and that this is false information being told to drivers by their companies. The three year look back on drivers records, will come from the roadside inspections performed by D.O.T.
Allen Smith from TruthAboutTrucking.com and AskTheTrucker.com
True, DAC Reports are a REAL issue but all your hard work, support and research for truckers IS appreciated!
Allen, I am going to have two FMCSA officials on my radio segment "Justice for ALL", on the Dave Nemo Show Monday Feb. 1, 9AM to 10AM CST. I would like to refer to your report and ask them a question or two pertaining to your blog. I have to get the questions approved ahead of the show but if you would like for me to ask a couple for you I would be happy to. I like what you are doing.
Thanks, and I appreciate it. Also, can you post a link here or on our blog so that people can listen to the show?
One question that I'd like to ask:
Isn't it unfair that new drivers are coming in with a "0" point rating when CSA 21010 goes into effect?
Also, with all the jobs losses going on right now with the economy, can anyone really justify the drive for new CDL training.
Ask them if it's true that there will be additional funding for new CDL drivers through various different government funding. If so, is this not unfair to the veteran drivers who are being starved out because they are making twice the CPM of a new CDL driver?
Here are the facts. Not my opinion. I'm keeping that to myself until I've finished learning all I can about CSA 2010.
The main purpose of CSA 2010 is to enforce laws already on the books. It doesn't add any additional regs.
Here are some highlights:
1.The program is designed for early intervention concerning safety related problems with both trucking companies and truckers. The FMCSA has developed this system to be a early warning system so they can intervene and provide guidance so a trucker doesn't lose his job, and avoid shutting down a carrier. It begins with warning letters to the carrier and the trucker for areas needing improvement. There is no report with in the FMCSA website about 175,000 truckers losing their jobs. That was the opinion of someone who incorrectly read how the CSA would apply to truckers.
2. According to what I've learned a no violation or no warning inspection will be listed along with inspections with violations. The trucker's points will be an average based on the number of inspections to the number of violations. Any trucker who goes through a level one, two or three inspection with no violations or warnings needs to be sure the inspection is written up in case they are so lucky later.
3. According to the FMCSA this will permit more focused inspections and reviews at less cost to the tax payer.
4. Their focus is on behaviors that are linked to crashes.
5. DAC is not involved. The system will only have information placed in it through official inspections, audits, roadside stops and investigations. It will be administered by a company out of Kansas called NIC Technologies. Trucking companies cannot enter any information into the system.
6. If a trucker leaves or is fired by a trucking company, his record follows him for 36 months, but it all so stays with the trucking company he left for two years. The Driver's old record doesn't affect the new company's score.
7. Trucking companies will be placed in peer groups of 1-5 trucks, 6-10 trucks for fairness.
8. The CSA 2010 will apply to any trucking company operating equipment within the USA whether Canadian or Mexican.
8. FMCSA is not going to assign safety ratings to drivers, only companies.
9. The point system for drivers has a normalizing means to it. The most recent 12 month period violation points are calculated by 3. 13-24 months are multiplied by 2 and 25 to 36 are point value only. meaning the older the violation is the less it counts against you.
10. All roadside inspections violations (not just out of service), moving violation, logbook violations, warning tickets all have a point value.
11. The DSMS point system will point out the drivers needing help so an intervention can be done directly with the driver.
12. The CSA 2010 is taking the rules that the FMCSA is mandated to enforce and providing a means to focus on the worst of the worst, whether it is a trucker or a trucking company, and then intervening to attempt to get the company or driver to change how they operate.
I'm planning a webinar on CSA 2010 towards the end of April once I have all the facts.
My thinking on this is that it is past the comment and testing stage and that it is going to happen whether you like it or not. So I will be concentrating on the best ways to use the CSA 2010 to a small carrier and driver's advantage.
Sounds like we are on the same page with this CSA2010. So many things are flying around out there, I don't think they even know how it is all going to work yet. I have spoken with a few CSA2010 specialists who also stated the 175,000 projected driver job loss was mentioned by FMCSA, just as was the 47.9% projected trucking companies failures.
Also, these are not "my opinions" but are drawn from several interviews, etc., just as from my BlogTalkRadio show. Mr. Thomas of Packard Transport is not the one who made the statement, but advised about the comment from FMCSA. Per his quote:
" Mr. Thomas also mentioned that the FMCSA has speculated that as many as 175,000 drivers will become unemployable when CSA 2010 goes into full effect."
This "speculation" has also been verified by the two CSA2010 specialists that I have been in contact with.
thanks,
Allen
Mr Brady,
In reply to your comments,
1st You did not talk about the fmcsa report from 2009 that stated that during recent studies, going back 5 years had the audits been done under the new csa 2010 guidelines, 47.8 % of ALL trucking Co's would fail.
Nor did your comments address the fact that current studies show that truck crashs are down but death rates in car vs truck crashs are at 14.5%, please note that when my staff researched this in more detail, it was noted that the Goverment used safe stat system and if you look into that system you will find that they are using stats dating back which includes trucking co's that are no longer in business, ex, 1st quarter of 2008 935 trucking co's with fleet size of 20 or more trucks went under, 2nd quarter again that numember was matched. Nor does the safe stat system take into account the 10,000 trucking co's with fleeets of 5 or less that went under that same year.
As to your comment about PEER Groups look back to when the trucking industry was regulated, the rights to operate were voted on by peer groups within the state you lived. If it didn't work then how do you think it will work now ?
The new csa 2010 guidelines WILL give an unfair advantage to new drivers coming in and will help to send into bankruptcy thousands of good drivers currently employed.
36 months is the time frame that a points record will follow each driver, I ask you this, Please name me 5 Trucking Co's that will hire a driver that has neg points against his record.
NIC will keep the records, thats fine, but is that not like saying Trans Union Credit reporting keeps your credit history ?
How many credit reports have wrong info listed ??
Show me sir, where in the csa 2010, drivers have a written gaurantee of appeal or that drivers record will be frozen waiting outcome of appeal.
Do you have any idea what this action will do to the economy of the USA ?
quote from you "My thinking on this is that it is past the comment and testing stage and that it is going to happen whether you like it or not."
Is this NOT the United States of America ? Why would you ever think that laws can Not be changed ?
I have asked 5 members of the OOU to research csa 2010 from top to bottom , side to side and that finding from the report they submit will be forwarded to DC and the Media.
Thank You
Dan Little
The below information is submitted not to be argumentative, but as information and clarification. There is much more that could be addressed, but these seem to be the important areas. This is submitted to to best of my knowledge of the facts and understanding of the facts.
1. To my knowledge there is no MAXIMUM level of points, that have been determined for Drivers, to determine a Intervention trigger point.
2. A Intervention comes in several forms and not all forms carry penalties and fines. It could be as simple as having to respond to a letter outlining the facts of specific instances.
3. A driver will not be given a Safety Rating or a Safety Fitness Determination (Announced at Dec. listening session). Without a rating assigned they can not be declared “Unfit” and loose driving privileges. The Carriers may form their own guidelines based on the points accumulated and probably will as a basis to hire new driver.
4. Drivers will not have a point system 1-10. The violations found on roadside inspections will have a point value 1-10.
5. Roadside inspections with violations will be offset through a normalizing effect in the formula for determining the driver score. In a simple explanation it will average the points over all inspections to include good inspections.
For instance you have 20 points in 2 inspections, but you have had 5 inspections in the first 12 months. Keep in mind there is a multiplier of 3 for the most current 12 months:
20 pts X 3 multiplier / 5 inspections = 12 points average in the 12 months (1-12)
6. Will the point system be an unfair advantage to existing drivers over new CDL drivers? If the Carrier ignores the experience that the existing drivers have, probably so.
7. Will Carriers be able to structure their pay based on this point System? Yes, and it also could effect Bonus’, etc.
8. Can drivers get inaccurate information off their profile under the current DATAQ process within Safestat? Maybe, Carriers today are having a hard time. It is possible with assistance and if the proper documentation is submitted. I would recommend getting assistance, unless you are familiar with the process, from a compliance specialist.
9. Is this system perfect? No it contains the possibility of inaccurate data as all systems. Also, at least in the beginning inconsistency in the inspection process from inspector to inspector. Not to name an important area – How do drivers contest and document inaccurate inspections received? I do not know, possibility a burden to have the inspection verified by a certified mechanic within a reasonable time period. Is there a Due process procedure to stop the points going on the profile? Not to my knowledge.
it's crazy to think that the fmcsa is going to let dot officers and state cops decide how many points a driver should get.. being raised in law enfforcement and the trucking industry. I pretty much know how both sides work. a cop or d.o.t. officer will falsify tickets and inspections to gain browny points with the state. most will check your mvr first to see if you have room for a big point ticket. it is what they do. the way cops of all kinds think. "I'm the cop" no one will take me to court! so I can lie and get away with it. and lieing mulnipulation and deception is heavily use in law enfforcement.. so rerad before you sign the tickets and inspections. now they can do what they want to truckers. and there is nothing you can do to rebute the the safety points or tickets.. which this to me is a huge problem with the csa2010 enforcment.. the 175,000 jobs lost. are just over the health regulations. thta's not counting the 1000's of drivers who quit from no wanting to be apart of the csa2010 terrioring truckers. or the 3,000 drivers a month every month after july 10 who are put out of it.. if you ask the average person if they know what csa 2010 is. they say no. when you explian it to them and how it is going to negativley affect the u.s economy and the cost of living. a look of shock is what you get from them.
I too was in law enforcement and find it difficult to believe that those sworn to uphold the law would do something so blatantly dishonest. That's not to say that all cops or D.O.T. officers are 100% honest and that something like you described above COULD not happen. However, to say that it'll be a common practice is hard for me to believe.
People are people, no matter what their profession.
Take truckers for example. There are many many good hard working honest truckers....and then there are some that you wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley. The same for teachers, clergy, and every other profession.
The problem isn't with law enforcement, nor with truckers, nor with any other profession....... the problem has all to do with humanity.
FMCSA Answers Frequently Asked Questions of Drivers
I hope everyone has seen the information the FMCSA put out, last week, to dispell some rumors or myths on how CSA2010 will affect Drivers. I have felt they need to do more of this, since they are the ones changing their procedures. If you have not read, please go to the FMCSA website for CSA2010 and read.
I want to address one of those questions and comment:
Q. What kinds of driver safety performance data is CSA 2010
looking at?
A. The new program focuses on driver enforcement for serious
rule violations, such as:
• Driving while disqualified
• Driving without a valid commercial driver’s license
• Making a false entry on a medical certificate
• Committing numerous Hours-of-Service violations
It is clear to me after reading all Q&A's that the FMCSA is mainly going to be interacting (Intervening) with Drivers at time the Safety Investigator (SI) visits the Carrier and performs a In-House Compliance Review. Then when major violations are found to have been committed by the Driver the SI will be investigating the Driver as well. The above violations are examples of severe violations.
Below is a quote from another question that reinforces my belief or opinion:
"The new tools enable Safety Investigators (SIs) to identify drivers with poor safety histories....."
SI's or Safety Investigators are the Agents that visit a Carrier for On-Site or In-House reviews and they will be the ones to Investigate the driver. In order for the SI to discover, there has to be a Carrier visit.
The above question tells us what areas they will be looking for on Drivers. I do not believe, except in extreme cases, that the FMCSA will be contacting Drivers directly, but rather only upon dicovering the problems upon review of the Carrier.
Great information here from all involved. We are posting some videos explaning the "basics" and what drivers should do to hselp protect themselves. http://www.thekeystruckers.com
Just looked at your Music Video and have to wonder why aren't you guys on the charts?
Great job! Let us know if we can put the video up on the iPhone TRUCKER application
Also, send the Mp3 to allen@truthabouttrucking.com and put in the subject line: Song foe Blog Talk Radio "Truth About Trucking Live"
Donna
We continue to have excellent information coming out on CSA2010. Glad to see we are clarifying and dispelling Rumors and Myths. Now for a few additional clarifications:
It is true at the present time drivers will not be issued a Safety Rating, so there will be no “Unfit” status, as I previously stated. I feel they originally intended this, but discovered they do not have the authority under FMCSA Part 383, which has provisions to put a driver “Out of Service”. However Anne Ferro recently made comments that was reported by TruckersNews:
“We are not at this time proposing to issue ‘safety ratings’ for drivers or to disqualify a driver based on our CSA 2010 scoring system” Ferro said. “We may consider that at some point after the program has matured but it is not part of what we are doing at this point.”
So will there be at one point a Safety Rating for Drivers, possibly. It is my opinion that a Rule Making Proceding would have to take place to get this accomplished, as in the case with the Motor Carriers in order to change the criteria for their current rating sytem.
There will be points assigned to the violations the drivers receive on roadside inspections. There is not a maximum number of points that will affect the driver adversely, at least from the FMCSA. Will the points show up in the Pre-employment Screening Program, probably, but we will not know for sure until it is made available. I say that due to the continual changes, updates or clarifications that are coming from the Administration.
In any event the Motor Carrier will use the information, points or no points in the Pre-Employment Screening Program to evaluate drivers for eligiility to hire, possible eligibility for bonus’ and/or pay increases. The points that drivers get on future violations will effect them when the driver is hired. It is felt that the past actions of drivers reflect their future actions. Thus, if a driver has many violations that would reflect a large number of points, in all probability the Motor Carrier will not hire the driver. Does the Driver need to worry about CSA2010?
Drivers do need to be concerned about CSA2010 to the point that they reduce their violations on roadside violations so that they are not adversely affecting their Driver Profile that will be built. It is true that the Administration stated, a few weeks ago, the Profile information in the Pre-employment Screening Program that was awarded to NIC Technologies as a 3rd Party Administrator, is not a part of CSA2010, but where is the data coming from. It is coming from the system setup for CSA2010. So is it really not a part of it?
I agree drivers will not have direct “Interventions” from the FMCSA at the present time. The Interventions will come as a result of finding violations, that the driver committed, at time of a internal review with the Motor Carrier, and they will only be looking at the major violations. Below is an exert from a FMCSA response to driver’s FAQ’s:
Q. What kinds of driver safety performance data is CSA 2010
looking at?
A. The new program focuses on driver enforcement for serious
rule violations, such as:
• Driving while disqualified
• Driving without a valid commercial driver’s license
• Making a false entry on a medical certificate
• Committing numerous Hours-of-Service violations
(These are examples, there are others)
Roadside Inspectors will have additional infomation at their disposal to review at the time of Inspection, as a result of CSA2010. This information will include violations previously cited on Carriers and Drivers. They would be able to use this to focus on past performances to perform “Targeted Inspections”. The inspector will be able to concentrate on areas on known non-compliance. So where are the Driver vioations coming from? Should Driver’s be concerned about violations when CSA2010 is implemented?
The responses to the drivers FAQ’s should be read by all, below is a link to the information:
our government is killing people , and jobs at a mad rate
i believe its intentional .
obama and the liberal demacrats are our worst nightmare
gone bad.
its getting harder and harder to get and keep a job in the united states no matter what the profession.
obama thinks that people without a job , are automatically
going to vote more entitlement programs . myself i would rather starve than vote more big government. every thing the feds touch is a disaster , no exceptions. csa2010 is a job killer,
what's the point value on warning tickets/tickets?
As far as we know, there are no point values on warning tickets. We are setting up a Blog Talk Radio show with the FMCSA to discuss CSA 2010 in April. We'll be discussing the many questions drivers are having. We'll also be having a write up before the show on the AskTheTrucker.com blog to address many issues and topics associated with CSA 2010
Everyone here thinks this is so bad, the end of the world wake up it's about time the dot is going force some of these unsafe and lawbreaking drivers out of work. We see drivers out here daily who are questionable. Why should we have to knowingly risk our lifes .If a driver can't do the job safely we don't need them on the road . Let them find a new job .
who are you all and they are trying to fool it's all about money i'm glad i'm retired but what about the guys and girls that is not
I am an O/o and this program will force me to carry the costs of reform for up to three years with no wage increase. Essentially I will be asked to do more work, and have less security for up to three years before I see any positive movement on rates.
If they want a regulated industry than regulate rates too. THe american consumer wants to have thier cake and eat it too. then they want to eat mine as well. I will not be buying another truck until a significant wage hike. They also need to change the laws so that I can stop driving when it is not worth running, and run when the wages are good. The structure of plate fees and laws right now are set up to keep pro drivers out year round until they beat thier truck up no matter what the rates are. I would like to park my truck til the wage increase is realized instead of doing all this eloging and compliance work and risking thier enforcement sweeps for free
i just got my cdl license 8 months ago (no tickets) but i had 2 tickets 5 years ago with my regular license they took 20 points off is that going to effect me.
All this is is yet another power grab by the government. As long as there are trucks on the road, there will be accidents. Some people just cant drive. Yea, they can get through a driving test but some just "dont get it" and never will. They say fines on motor carriers will increase, well the small guys just dont have a chance anymore. This whole thing makes me sick. I no longer drive, but in a 10 year driving carear I did more dope, covered more miles per week than most would think possible, made more money, never had an accident, and always had a "perfect looking" log book with no violations. Leave it alone. Quit taking our freedom and do something more productive with your time instead of making life harder on an industry that already struggles with high fuel costs,an ABUNDANCE of regulation, and small profit margins.
What is this I hear about an updated point CDL point System coming July 2010?
Hey Dave,
You mean in regards to CSA 2010? Are you talking about the BASICS scoring? Listen to the show tonight
Here's the link
I have a question how will this effect the company drivers who are being forced by their companies to drive these trucks that are not up to code with the DOT I know first hand of drivers who keep putting in reports to their companies that there are problems with their rigs and their companies just keep saying will fix it and they are getting wrote up for it when they get stopped. Will the companies be charged these points as well?
YES! Companies are going to have to step up their game with CSA 2010.
If you know something is wrong with the truck you need to tell them so you don't get the violation.
Lets try using this to our advantage,if your csa score is 0 your in demand,Company drivers could make 3yr contracts 80,000 a year salary what ever else they want,companies would laugh at one or two drivers but if they get 100 applications with contracts you never know,we dont have much to lose,i'm already looking to find a new way to make a living,food for thought
so you pick up a nail they stop you in road check so points against you makes no sense why didn't we miss that nail too much gov. we need to stand up to these people. Double jeopardy law, how are we going to let these guys charge us for the past now they are breaking the laws that were past all u truckers stand up get a backbone
I ran for what we call an out law co. from ks to miaMI AND back 4-5 days. slip seat one gets out one right back in . I got back to ks got pulled over they found aother drivers pot pipe . I got it thrown out . for ill. search and seizure but it was put on the points system and now cant get a job any where. I called topeka and the leut. i talked to said it was hias call and he was not gonna take it off now i cant drive for 24 months. its this kind of bs that is gonna make unenployment of drivers go up with this new csa2010.I dont have any kind of job exp. to fall back on .
I would really like to know which web-site has the actual CSA 2010 law. Iwas by a friend who listens to XM truckers radio that this new law also includes the D.O.T.'s right to give truckers on-site physicals and suspend drivers who do not fit the BMI, blood-sugar levels, blood-pressure tests, etc. Does the government now believe it has the right to dictate jobs according to health? (Gattica anyone?)Any idea where I can find valid info? Thx Sleepless
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Chat room will be open and you can also listen to from the link below
i don't known any drivers that going to meet theses standers that the federal goverment has made with 2010 the d.o.t.makes up a lot of things on these trucks one thing is that every time you get stopped your braked are always out. we known cause we took our truck right into the garage and had them checked out when only one was out and the d.o.t. sayed that all of them was out. the federal goverment are paying about 4 states to put trucks off the road and there drivers thats how dirtie the goverment is. whats going to have to be done is to stop all the food to these stores. let the people in washington d.c. go hungry for a time. there putting people out of work so they can't take care of there familys this is really helping the country .them d.o.t. isn't for safty there for money
Today we here the term “interstate commerce” being bandied about, but that phrase does not even appear in the Constitution. The governments’ position is that if two or more states are involved, or if a foreign entity is involved, then the federal government has jurisdiction over all aspects of the venture regardless of what it is. Let’s see if this position is constitutionally correct. The Constitution states in Article 1, Section 8: “To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes.” What did the founders mean by regulating commerce? Madison wrote in Federalist 42 that the primary reason to regulate commerce was to ensure equitable treatment between all the states. He states specifically:
“A very material object of this power was the relief of the States which import and export through other States, from the improper contributions levied on them by the latter. Were these at liberty to regulate the trade between State and State, it must be foreseen that ways would be found out to load the articles of import and export, during the passage through their jurisdiction, with duties which would fall on the makers of the latter and the consumers of the former. We may be assured by past experience, that such a practice would be introduced by future contrivances; and both by that and a common knowledge of human affairs, that it would nourish unceasing animosities, and not improbably terminate in serious interruptions of the public tranquility.”
The idea was that the federal government would ensure a level playing among ALL the states and ensure free and equitable movement of goods and services between and among the many states. It did not confer power for the federal government to enact legislation on how business was to be run or the manner in which private enterprise conducted that business even if it did cross state lines.
But our congress today would have us believe that there are no bounds by which the federal government cannot cross as long as they can find a nexus that touches upon interstate commerce or general welfare. When Speaker Nancy Pelosi was asked where Congress had the constitutional authority to enact an individual health insurance mandate she replied “Are you serious? Are you serious?” Yes profound and thought provoking! But in a CNSNews.com email inquiry on the “Constitutionality of Health Insurance Reform” they claimed that the congressional authority was derived from congress’ power to regulate interstate commerce.
There logic is similar to that of another example of governmental overreaching in United States v. Lopez, 514 U.S. 549 (1995) in which Lopez was walking near a school in San Antonio, Texas. Lopez had in his position a concealed .38 caliber handgun and 5 cartridges. He was charged with violating the federal Gun Free School Zone Act of 1990, 18 U.S.C. 922(q). He argued that the federal government had no legal authority to act, and no jurisdiction, within the boundaries of the state.
The governments’ argument was that carrying a gun near schools leads to violent acts and has an adverse affect on the area, and it thereby negatively affects commerce. They also stated that having crimes in the vicinity of schools leads to poorer learning, due to fear of the guns, which leads to a weaker economy, and thereby, negatively affects commerce. With this kind of circular logic, any area in the United States could be placed under the jurisdiction of the Federal regime.
In the current healthcare legislation they impart a similar logic in that the individual will be required (read forced) to purchase insurance or be fined/taxed. Because the individual, though acting wholly within his state would have a negative impact on health and insurance commerce and therefore impacts on interstate commerce and therefore falls under the authority of the federal government.
With that logic there is absolutely nothing that you or I may do that cannot be found to impact commerce or welfare. In fact by you not doing something you are negatively impacting commerce, like not purchasing insurance, and therefore you can be forced to do so.
So, if Madison, Jefferson, and the rest of the founders felt so strongly against a powerful central government and felt compelled to enumerate the specific powers they could operate under and added the tenth amendment to ensure that the federal government understood that all other powers were to remain with the states and the people, why do we have so many federal laws and agencies that are blatantly unconstitutional?
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I cannot believe that those in Congress, the majority being lawyers with advanced degrees and years of study, have risen to such a station in life based on stupidity or ignorance. That would lead us to the inescapable conclusion that they know exactly what they are doing and they are hell bent on the destruction of personal liberty and state sovereignty our nation was founded upon. At a very minimum they have abdicated their oath to protect and defend the Constitution for support of party and self interest and at worst have conspired against the Constitution they swore an oath to defend.
© 2009 Michael LeMieux - All Rights Reserved
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Michael LeMieux was born in Midwest City, Oklahoma in 1956 and graduated from Weber State University in Utah with a degree in Computer Science. He served in both the US Navy and US Army (Active duty and National Guard) and trained in multiple intelligence disciplines and was a qualified paratrooper. He served with the 19th Special Forces Group, while in the National Guard, as a Special Forces tactical intelligence team member. He served tours to Kuwait and Afghanistan where he received the Purple Heart for injuries received in combat.
Mr. LeMieux left military duty at the end of 2005 after being medically discharged with over 19 years of combined military experience. He currently works as an intelligence contractor to the US government.
Michael is a strict constitutionalist who believes in interpreting the constitution by the original intent of the founding fathers. His research has led him to the conclusion that the republic founded by the Constitution is no longer honored by our government. That those who rule America today are doing so with the interest of the federal government in mind and not the Citizens. Michael believes that all three branches of government have strayed far from the checks and balances built into the Constitution and they have failed the American people. A clear example is the Second Amendment, which the Supreme Court and the founders have all said was an individual right and could not be "infringed" upon, now has more than 20,000 state and federal laws regulating every aspect of the individuals right, a definite infringement. He has traveled around the world living in 14 States of the Union including Hawaii, and visited (for various lengths of time) in Spain, Afghanistan, Kuwait, Korea, Scotland, Pakistan, Mauritius, Somalia, Diego Garcia, Australia, Philippines, England, Italy, Germany, and Puerto Rico.
Michael now lives in Nebraska with his wife, two of his three children, Mother-in-Law and grandchild. His hobbies include shooting, wood-working, writing, amateur inventor and scuba diving when he can find the time.
Contact Michael through his Website: www.constitutiondenied.com
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Thomas Jefferson agreed with James Madison that Congress must be held within the bounds outlined. To allow the General Welfare clause to be used in a broad sense would allow Congress to assume a “boundless field of power.” The founders knew that the government was to be of limited scope, power, and means.
My husband was stopped today for a vehichle inspection and I quote "your load had plackets and we are stopping all such loads for inspection". He rec'd a perfect inspection but was told by the State Trooper that he would still rec 2 points against his license because he had been stopped due to the SOP of stopping of all plac. trucks. This is just a start.
I get the idea/concept to get the bad/unsafe drivers off the road. But what is rediculous and unfair is having an unpreventable accident be able to lower your score. Parked in a truck stop and another driver hitting you damaging your truck is not a preventable accident, has no bearing on the safety performance of the victim in this scenario. And should not have any effect on the truck drivers safety score at all. ONLY the truck driver that hit him. His safety score should be affected.
This gives employers too much of an leeway for using rediculous reasons for not having to give out bonuses that are earned for bogus reasons.
It also cripples the driver that was the victim if he chooses to seek employment elsewhere.
I think there should be a law put in place to also protect the drivers from employers taking unfair advantage of their drivers and being able to use these scores as a means to manipulate and skirt the promises they make to their drivers. And not ruin them in the process of it.
When something is not preventable, that means it happened through NO FAULT of their own. Do all the truck drivers have to pay for the idiots are there that ruin the names of the good ones out there that work hard and follow the rules. And respect their fellow man. Or are we basing this all on stereotyping the truck driver.
Oh and when you report your truck needs service for something that could get you a DOT violation and your employer refuses to get you in or somewhere to fix it right away. With proof of reporting it the employer should get fined and penalized, not the driver. Why should he loose his money he is out there to earn for a reason because his employer's bad judgement.
I don't even know if this was the right place to gripe about this but it's infuriating. And shouldn't be allowed to happen.
Hey, even truck drivers that do care about safety have to worry about the idiot truck drivers out there. Not just the four wheelers. Stop lumping them all together with how these safety scores are set up.
this red list is totally unconstitutional. STRIKE
So when does this go into affect?
Does anyone realize all this chat and blogging does NOTHING but enrage people and noone has true info even the legis folks emplementing csa2010. Even if someone here states the "facts"....the rules still will not change and the fines and charges will still be impossed. If you want to know how to bet the system.....Play the game....just that simple....do what they ask or find a new job....waste of time crying about what will NEVER change.....live with it and focus energy into doing the task at hand which is driving.
CSA 2010 is ruining truckers. DOT officers are giving out warnings like candy and companies are firing drivers because a warning is just like getting a citation in CSA 2010. Anyone know how to get a warning removed that has charges that were dismissed?
I just got a 10 point load securement violation because
the officer said my plastic edge protectors on my catwalk were loose and were not properly secured; They were tied down with two bunjie chords. My load of steel was fine; chains tight ; tarped correctly but i got a 10 point violaton for load securement on edge protectors on the catwalk.
JD,
TO challenge anything on your PSP (CSA) go to
https://dataqs.fmcsa.dot.gov/login.asp
Also, just so everyone knows, warnings are as bad as an actual citation.
Does anyone realize that our "beginning scores" that were based on past sins for the last 3 years that we have already been punished for, wrote up for, ticketed for, learned our lessons from are being held against us twice? We are now paying twice. That is very unfair. There has to be a law against that. Some how, some way. We have had a zero tolerance policy in place trying to prepare for this CSA crap, but it did us no good. We are out of business b/c our score says were are at an unsafe level. Brokers & shippers are using this. I called CSA and actually spoke with one of the guys who helped implement this and you know what he said? This program was not designed to have shippers and brokers withhold freight, it was only designed as a TOOL for THEM to help companies be safer!! We don't even have the opportunity now to be allowed to correct the problem and help[ our score---it is there for 32 months!!! God help the companies who piss a driver off, because he could pull in to a scale and really screw you. Yea he might be hurting himself too, but watch it is going to happen.
Does anyone realize that our "beginning scores" that were based on past sins for the last 3 years that we have already been punished for, wrote up for, ticketed for, learned our lessons from are being held against us twice? We are now paying twice. That is very unfair. There has to be a law against that. Some how, some way. We have had a zero tolerance policy in place trying to prepare for this CSA crap, but it did us no good. We are out of business b/c our score says were are at an unsafe level. Brokers & shippers are using this. I called CSA and actually spoke with one of the guys who helped implement this and you know what he said? This program was not designed to have shippers and brokers withhold freight, it was only designed as a TOOL for THEM to help companies be safer!! We don't even have the opportunity now to be allowed to correct the problem and help[ our score---it is there for 32 months!!! God help the companies who piss a driver off, because he could pull in to a scale and really screw you. Yea he might be hurting himself too, but watch it is going to happen.
the govt has yet found another way to control your(our) lives! ready for a true story which will let you know how out of control this new system. a close friend owner of a mom n pop trucking co like my self took delivery of a 2011 international tractor,looks like a train from the front ,im not an international guy so i don't even know the models name ,just a darn pretty truck.
he ,the company owner set out heading to pittsburg pa area for a new trailer.
he told me at that point the truck was under 1000 miles.
while heading back to the philadelphia area, he is flagged into a truck inspection area,i believe its called the blue route. the inspection is a level 1 full.
this unit has now got 1300 and change on the tractor and a bit over 300 miles on the trailer.
after the inspection is completed and he is handed a inspection report with one infraction,to his disbelief after spending 143,000 dollars for the total unit.
this govt paid DOT creep ,listed the infraction as insufficnent fluid in window washer tank,a severity lev 1, he called me and said he was ready to drive the truck off the road and call it quits,could you blame him?
lets face it lights dont stop working when the truck is parked, windshields dont get chipped parked in a lot nor do tires go flat binders dont come loose when truck is parked....truck parts break when their in use,so how can it be a just system when something is always going to run the course of its usable life and brake when the truck is going down the road...is this just another ignorant use of power or maybe common sense> im beside myself
Many thanks for this Trucking article. Some terrific info that all truckers and owners of trucking companies can use. Keep up the great posts!
Thanks a lot for this post on Trucking. Trucking jobs are important, however often forgotten in society. Our nation will need to help support the trucking industry to keep our nation improving.
Hi, I'm in search of tips for brand new drivers looking to get their CDL License. If anyone has any ideas, please leave them right here!
Its now May 2011, CSA 2010 is up and running . I came out on the road in 2006 . First year was really good until I got hit by the company with some of the most insane DAC entries you could ever imagine until I was fired . I have spent the 4 years barley surviving due to being forced to work for very bad low life companies . I have been with the same company now for three years . Their equipment is just plain GARBAGE and they refuse to fix what needs to be fixed. After having to wait out all of my DAC stuff, I was up for a very very good paying lease driver job. a few weeks ago I was DOT'd and ALL of the violations were written to my company , I have been showing the shops and writting up a massive oil leak , a massive power steering box leak for over a year , They knew what the problem was they have seen it , . So even through PM's and Federal inspections , they still refused to fix anything. I had to wait 7 months before I was cleared by the prespective company . At the last minute , I was turned down because I racked up something like 60 points in one inspection . Here is what has happened as a result , I met and married a filipino girl back in 07 , we were married in the Philippines and I pretty much moved there after we were married , My intention was to come back here, work for a few more years and save the money I needed to build our house and start our business there. My daughter was born while I was here , I have not been able to go home to PH to see my family in years , I have never met my daughter . I just dont make any money , at.40cpm and less then 1700 miles a week I am barley able to take care of them and forget about me and the apartment I have here , and the bills that go along with it . after waiting all this time for my DAC record problems to go away I just had to tell my wife that because of this CSA 2010 crap and my companies will full refusal to maintain THEIR equipment. I will never be able to see her again . I am unemployable AGAIN .Now you tell me , how is it my fault that my company chose to sign off on a federal inspection and PM (done on the same day ) and not fix a dam thing . WHY WAS I CHARGED ????? This is going to happen and it has been happening ever since CSA started and it is going to get worse . whats really sad is , The DOT officer was one of the nicest guys I have met , His dad was a truck driver and he told me that He and many of his fellow officers dont like CSA 2010 he told me that , they still dont even know how it really works , they have only been instructed TO WRITE VIOLATIONS !!! NJ was in the pilot program .My life has been distroyed , I can hear alot of you already , " well you should have had them put you into another truck" not an option , that would have been like jumping out of the pan into the fire. What recourse do I have ????? NONE . This is one of the biggest problems that will continue to happen to good drivers , they are going to be ripped aprt because these companies just wont do the right thing ,. My heart goes out to all of you O/O fuel is killing you guys and I know repairs are not easy to keep up with no matter how hard you try . And what are we as drivers doing NOTHING , once again we are just bending over and dropping our pants . OOIDA and most of the trucking advocates are talking big about all of this but they are not doing anything to STOP IT they are just trying to convince us to comply . They should be screaming bloody murder and gets us all fired up to STOP THESE TRUCKS AND DEMAND CHANGE ON OUR TERMS
I too have been destroyed. 1 inspection led to 6 violations. I forgot to write the 24 in the total hours line and I "signed my log too early" along with a "bad" trailer tire and a non existent power steering leak. 1 week later I got stopped with the same trailer and got all clear on the same tires, but my pig tAil was not plugged in all the way and he go me for defective brake lights, and listed all the other lights seperately...
Now I can not get hired. I have a perfect mvr and a certificate for 1m accident free miles. I am working for scum bags that bounce my pay check every other week. I hope the creators of this program have a loved one get cancer and they have to watch them die.
drove for 6.5 yrs...csa ruined me. had a hearing on my points b4 csa...judge thru out 2/3 of my pts, SC dot did not adjust my mvr. incident in MI, officer said I was driving w/o a license...frontloaded my csa pts with 50 pts. My cos pts were too high...their solution=get rid of the drivers w highest pts=9 of us gone(prob the hardest workers). could not get hired elsewhere=doing other work, waiting for my license to "dry out". sick. I know how to vote...for anyone who will get rid of csa garbage!!
Robert Ramey 2 years ago
ok" so CSA2010 will only come from road side DOT inspections! Fine. I have no violations! I also don't have any violations on my MVR/DMV/DOT period!!!no tickets-no points-no accidents! it won't matter against a DAC screw over any more than any thing else does! It's just more...BullShit" for a Driver to deal with. If you" or anyone want to really" do anything constructive" for this industry! concentrate on those parasites!That" would do more for the American Truck Driver, than anything any shape or form!All" this...other stuff, is a distraction from themost important issue in the industry!!!!